Manuel Agnelli: “The AI needs a control commission”
Anything but a sabbatical: Manuel Agnelli has no intention of stopping. Solo is shifting focus from his personal musical projects to being a cultural agitator. Which he has always done: “I have never considered being an artist as something that was enough for me. I have always tried to actively participate”, he explains to Rockol
The last time we heard from him was to talk about Afterhours and Carne Fresca, his project for artists and bands outside of algorithms, at Germi, his Milanese club. After’s tour was a success, but the band has gone back into hibernation: it’s possible they’ll return to the stage, less likely they’ll dedicate themselves to new music, he says. And Carne Fresca evolved into Suoni dal Futuro, a broader project, with the participation of SIAE and involving clubs from all over Italy, for three years. We had him tell us. But, as always with Agnelli, the discussion takes a broader turn, on the general distortions of the system. Including the one that stirs the waters most of all: the relationship with technology and artificial intelligence: “A cultural destruction: what arrives at the level of technological innovation seems wonderful to us and we embrace it as if it were cool, but I say it and I repeat it: shit is shit even if it’s new”
What is the relationship between “Fresh Meat” and “Sounds from the Future”? How did you go from a radical project only in Germi to a broader one with the participation of an institutional partner like SIAE?
The project remains Germi’s, SIAE is an active sponsor, because it has embraced the meaning of the project. Compared to “Fresh Meat”, it actually comes even closer to the idea we had at the beginning: creating a network between similar places, live clubs but also cultural centers, social centers, spaces where music is made but also other things, literature, presentations, stand up comedy. There are many of them in Italy, they experienced a huge crisis with Covid and also in the following years. Many venues have closed, they often become empty containers, they are rented for medium-large concerts, but without planning and artistic direction. They no longer have a line, a personality, as the Bloom of Mezzago or the Velvet of Rimini could have.
Instead, in the smaller venues there is still a program and a vision and we want to reorganize a network of these spaces, where a new scene can grow: places where kids can play, meet, exchange experiences and contacts and this also applies to the public.
SIAE is interested because it means revitalizing live clubs and also promoting the fact that these kids write their own songs, unlike part of the current generation who relies on teams of authors and producers, often the same, with a very uniform result. From an artistic point of view it is a quite dramatic period.
How did the relationship with SIAE begin? Did you also hear from other institutions or were they the only ones who were interested in the project?
At “Fresh Meat” we wanted to have a festival. I knew Salvo Nastasi, the president of SIAE, from the days when he worked at the ministry, he was one of those who had listened to us at the time of the demonstrations for the music law. During a dinner I told him what we were doing and he thought it could also be interesting for SIAE, as a promotional action for a new generation of authors and for live clubs. There was also support from the management board, which approved the project.
In general, in Italy “cultured” music, opera, theatre, cinema and culture with a capital C are financed more.
Yes, there is a huge gap, starting with the public. The first is that people don’t realize that this is a job: almost no one perceives the professional dimension of music, which is an entrepreneurially very risky and very demanding job. The fact that there is no awareness means that there is no pressure on the institutions: and politics works on emergencies. If no one presses, there are always other priorities.
Furthermore, the category is very divided: musicians, technicians, managers, agencies, press offices… it is not a compact environment. We struggle to represent our requests.
What are the reasons for this division, from your point of view? A cultural or economic issue?
A bit of both. At the lowest levels there is little money, but as you move up it is no longer the case, even if compared to other fields such as television we remain on different figures.
There is a “backyard” mentality: at the record level there is a sort of monopoly of the multinationals and they don’t collaborate, they wage war on each other. The same goes for big promoters. And underneath there is an enormous magma of realities of all kinds, including the so-called alternative scene, which has always been very provincial and self-ghettoised, and very divided there too. Often there is no real entrepreneurial will, because many do not do it as a job but as a passion. And this makes it difficult to build a system. In such a situation, politics could do a lot: a law on music would help recognize the professional dimension of the sector.
Paradoxically, we should also distinguish between professionals and hobbyists: it is a division, but it would serve to clarify the roles.
How can we intervene?
Our project wants to create a system. I don’t think we can change the real dynamics of the market in a short time, but we can work on the mentality, and that then changes the dynamics. We don’t do scouting: we don’t look for “the new ones” to make the revolution. The talent is there and sooner or later it emerges. Our job is to transmit experience and create the conditions for a different system to develop.
These guys do different things, but they share a vision: why they play, what they reject and what they accept about the current system. This is central. In the 90s there was a system that supported itself, produced economy and professionalism: technicians, producers, managers were trained there. Then it ghettoized itself and shut down, but it worked.
We try to start from there.
Today, however, the context has changed: the story of a project is almost as important as the music. Is it possible to make music without building a “storytelling”?
It’s possible, but we need to rebuild a system, exactly. We won’t replace what’s there, but we can complement it. The real risk is another: artificial intelligence could lead to a music industry made up of pre-packaged content, without artists, at very low costs.
There is a lot of talk about it and as always with new technologies there is a division between apocalyptic and integrated.
I hope there is a control commission as there is for food, for the climate, for pollution, for traffic, for industrial materials. I hope it will also be there for artistic production. It’s sad to say it, but in my opinion it’s better to have it than not to have it: at least there isn’t total chaos and there are points of reference, even negative ones.
When artificial intelligence really arrives, we risk a music industry that offers pre-packaged packages of music for different genres, jazz, blues, rock, pop, rap, with no one behind it and with almost zero entrepreneurial risk, because production costs are minimal.
However, every technology is greeted simultaneously with both enthusiasm and suspicion, especially in music. I’m becoming more suspicious in this case…
What arrives in terms of technological innovation seems wonderful to us and we embrace it as if it were cool, but I say it and I repeat it: shit is shit even if it’s new.
It would be cultural destruction. Music is one of the few remaining popular megaphones. When the kids rediscover the physicality of concerts, being together, they understand that there is nothing more powerful. It is a response to the virtual.
What is happening to your personal projects while you dedicate yourself to “Sounds from the Future”?
I postponed my productions to follow this project. I have an album and a half ready, I don’t know where it will end, I don’t know what I’ll do with it. In reality, I have always had this tendency: I have never considered being an artist as something that was enough for me. I have always tried to participate actively. Already with Tora! Tora!, for example, I have always tried to build a system. I believe that making a scene is convenient for everyone. The problem is that the system is fragmented, full of words and poor in facts. This pushed me to do.
You talked about a gap year. Do you confirm?
Yes, it’s a gap year. It started well: I spent a month in Australia, I saw friends again, I travelled. Not to play, but to live. Then this project with SIAE arrived and it seemed too important to me not to work on it seriously.
And the Afterhours? After the success of the tour, the book that came out a few months ago, do you see a future for the band?
I’m not thinking about it. We were also surprised by the outcome of the tour.
After have become a bit iconic for a part of the audience that has also become younger, so we could do more tours.
Making new records is more unlikely: the public is more interested in the repertoire than in new things. I will probably carry on new things and creativity in personal projects, where I have more freedom. I’m in a privileged position: I’m 60 years old and I can do what I want.
